I have a very strong feeling about making contact with spirits on “the other side.”
I don’t.
In fact, I recommend just leaving them the hell alone.
This isn’t because I think all spirits contacted are actually demons or something (though it’s certainly possible), or that communication with the dead is necessarily the tool of Satan (I suppose it depends on the context), or even because I am scared of spirits.
It also isn’t because I believe that contacting the spirit world is a bunch of bull dookie. I actually do believe the spiritual world might be more than just Heaven and Hell. I do believe that magic is real, or that at the very least some set of psychic forces that might as well be magic exists. I even think it is possible for spirits to haunt a place or even to, on rare occasions, reach out to us.
For example, Mrs. Blue mourned the loss of her mother to cancer greatly. It was a deep emotional wound, and it rocked her deeply, right down to her faith. At a certain point, though, she felt the very strong presence of her mother one day, as if she were trying to speak to my wife. And the message my wife came away with was: “Let it go. Let me go.” My wife did, and even though she still thinks about and misses her mother, it isn’t such a consuming thing.
I believe that her mother reached out, or was allowed by God to reach out, and put her mind at ease. There has been no other contact like that, and I suspect there won’t be.
I look at it this way:
Mediums exist. I’m sure many of them are charlatans (or deluded) but I also believe some of them are real. My problem is that there are very few people who can reach the spirit world to dial up a little conversation with a dead person. There are a lot of people who would like to hear from their dearly departed. But if we were meant to be trying to reach them, I just think it would be a lot easier. I mean, I figure there would be a system in place to let them reach us instead of us having to punch a damn hole through the spiritual wall using some medium with a psychic sledgehammer. Or to dial up the super-secret toll-free number to the other side.
An acquaintance of Mrs. Blue’s recently lost her father (at a relatively young age; he was in good health and I think he was in his early 60s). Recently, she posted on Facebook how grateful she was that John Edwards (the famous medium/psychic, not the former presidential candidate) was able to reach out to her dad. She was so grateful. And maybe it was her father. Maybe it wasn’t. But I feel that if folks are on the other side, unless the other side is as messed up as this side, shouldn’t they be more spiritually aware? Is there any reason those spirits need us to pick up the psychic phone if they have a better set of equipment over there? They’re spirits, and yet we have to do the work of making the spiritual connection?
It doesn’t add up for me.
And the thing is, even when mediums contact spirits, doesn’t it always seem to be the “Everything is fine, be at peace” message?
So, shouldn’t we just leave them be? In peace. Why do we need to bother them to set our minds at rest? Because, if there is an “other side” we’ll see it soon enough. And we can talk to them then.
Yes, the spirits of our dearly departed can speak to us. But I think what they really want us to hear is that little voice they leave with us when they departed this world, that we’d probably hear if we listened: “Remember me fondly and remember me well, and I’ll see you soon enough.”
the bible talks about Saul going to a soothsayer to contact Samuel.
A good point. At the very least, I suppose there are always reasons to do certain things that might not otherwise be done.
I just personally think it’s best to leave the dearly departed in peace instead of trying to ring them up.
It’s not a biblical thing, really. It’s more of a personal opinion. 😉
i don’t speak to them, they speak to me. my brother brother in law, uncle and parents have each pointed me in directions i might not have gone, helping me get on with my life instead of wasting it. trying to contact them has been futile, i hear them when they’re ready.
or maybe i’m hearing me, what i know they’d say if they were here.
but there was that time i was biking uphill, exhausted and suddenly i was FLYING. not pedaling at all, but going 20+ mph, my brother telling me he had my back…
You know, that makes a lot more sense to me, and I have no issue with that. They speak sometimes, we listen. Again, my wife had her own experience, and I think there are reasons for them to reach out to us.
I guess my problem is with people who fervently want to continue to harrass the dearly departed to chat with them. I just figure they have a lot better things to do on the other side than engage in small talk with us. 😉 So I just don’t get people who really go out of their way to try to make contact…and worse yet who do it over and over. Seems like it’s an example of human selfishness that they can’t just let them be when they’ve moved on.
Probably just me. But that’s the thing I don’t get.
Seems like it’s an example of human selfishness that they can’t just let them be when they’ve moved on.(Deacon)
You may be right on this, but what if its coming from the other side?
Seems like when it comes from the other side, TitforTat, it’s subtle and often helpfully guiding, and infrequent.
That strikes me as getting help from folks who have a better perspective on things, at times you really, really need that help.
😉
Hi Deacon, I hope you and family are well.
I suppose as a believing Christian you would have to believe in magic and demons and angels, as they seem to populate the Bible. But deep down do you really think there is real magic and demons…is there any proof anywhere or at any time? Has there ever been any credible eyewitnesses to either? Bible doesn’t count here as there are doubts we have actual truths in at least some things written about there.
Years ago, just to push my envelope I tried a Ouija board and tried to summon up “demons”…nothing, nothing at all. I have heard that you have to believe(or at least be open to the possibility)it will happen or it won’t work. I guess I wasn’t open enough because all through the experiment I didn’t believe and got my *expected* result.
Have you ever had a prayer unequivocally-undeniably answered? It doesn’t count if just a random event could somehow be your answer.
twom
First, thinking in terms of demons and magic…is that any crazier than psychic abilities. I’ve seen my fair share of evidence that there is at least some credence to psychic powers.
And, in the end, are the two any different from each other (magic and psychic powers)? It’s all a way of accessing or touching power in the universe. The names are just semantics.
But you may well reject the notion of all kinds of paranormal things, in which case that will sound just as silly to you as does “magic” or “demons.”
A prayer, unequivocally answered…well, you set a condition that it can’t just be a random event. OK. So, how about the several times in my life when a crisis arises, usually financial to some degree or another, and I got down on my knees to pray for protection and strength to deal with things. And then, within days or scant weeks, out of nowhere, an opportunity to make money or some unexpected money comes into my hands. In almost precisely the amount needed? You can say it’s coincidence. I say otherwise.
Now, a key here is that I don’t generally ask for money. I don’t ask for gifts. I try to remember to ask for strength and to be shielded from harm. Now, even there I’m not always going to get my wish. I don’t always shield my kids from “harm” or from painful lessons and opportunities to grow that might not be as pleasant as they’d like.
I don’t get everything answered in prayer. But that’s God’s perogative to decide which requests are from the right place and right frame of heart…and which ones serve a greater good.
“Have you ever had a prayer unequivocally-undeniably answered?” twom
The question was meant for Deacon Blue, but permit me to answer as well:
All The Time.
But, alas, you won’t believe me. You’ll still chalk it up to “coincidence.” *sigh*
Hi all,
I kind of lost where I was back when this was first being replied too.
If there’s anybody still looking at this post I have a question for lighWorker:
Why do you suppose that a person who has lost a limb…an arm or leg, has never in recorded history had the prayer to restore this amputated body part answered??
I realize this is probably an old question, but I have never heard it answered.
You might as well ask, why has no one’s prayer to be made master of all the Earth been granted…or why no one’s been given the power to fly or turn invisible like they asked, so that they could spy on the chicks in the girl’s locker room and then fly off to masturbate about it in the Swiss Alps.
The proper things to pray for when having lost a limb would be something like, oh…
Please give me the strength to be equal to this challenge.
Please help me to live an even better life with one less limb.
Please help me find a way to afford a truly good prosthetic.
Etc.
Life sometimes has ugly events, and those events shape who we are.
Besides, let’s say someone prayed that prayer and then suddenly re-grew an arm. What purpose would be served? Do you think people would believe that the person’s arm came back because of prayer? More likely, people would scream “hoax” or that person would end up being poked, prodded and turned into a human pin-cushion as people tried to figure out how he/she developed a self-regeneration power.
Deac
Why does it have to be a lost limb?
The Bible is riddled with accounts of the blind being given sight, of the lame being allowed to walk and of TWO dead men being risen from the dead.
Why is the standard a lost limb? Crazy.
I agree, Big Man, that setting the standard as a lost limb is odd, but I think TWOM was trying to find a dramatic example to challenge the notion that prayers can be answered.
It seems unlikely to me that God would grant a miracle so striking in this day and age…we’re not really in the dramatic, overt miracle realm right now…but it’s certainly possible. But I have to say that I think the huge miracles we see today aren’t going to be the dead rising or eyes regrowing and such (at least not until we start winding up the show and all bets are off, a la “Revelation”). I think the dramatic miracles now are the spontaneous remissions of cancer, people coming out of comas they have not right to be coming out of, an autistic child coming to full normal awareness, someone surviving a disaster against all odds, etc. Those things are every bit as miraculous, but people can say, “Wow, that was lucky” or “Boy, the human body sure can do amazing things”
God seems content for the time to have miracles be things that can’t obviously be labelled as, “only God could have done that” since He’s not trying to force our belief in Him.
Or, at least, that’s my take on things.
Hi guys, I hope you are all well
So I would be better off having cancer and hoping for a miraculous remission that I could thank God for?
What I am thinking here is that (of course) there is no God to answer anyone’s prayers. If there is no clear-cut answer to prayers, than all can be attributed to chance, spontaneous remission, or what-have-you.
People pray for something, and if they get what they prayed for than “God” answered their prayer. If they do not get their prayer answered than “God” is saying not yet or no. Anything in the world can be prayed for…the only ones ever answered will be the ones that could also be coincidence or remission…stuff that happens all the time in the world. I don’t think there has ever been a certified miraculous (Magic or supernatural) answer to a prayer in the 2000 year history of Jews/Christianity.
But, didn’t Jesus say that whatever one prays for WILL be given to the prayee?
Now I truly mean no disrespect here Deacon, BigMan, or LightWorker, but wouldn’t you think that there would be at the very least one truly miraculous answered prayer in all that time. Something that a believer could point to and say, “Hey look at this…this is one answered prayer that is not ambiguous…only a real God could have done this” But, after 2000 years and probably trillions of individual prayers there is nothing to look at…nothing.
First off, Jesus told his apostles that what they asked would be given to them. He did so knowing that guided by the holy spirit, they weren’t going to be asking for things out of line with his purposes. I don’t see it as a blanket statement for all believers. Also, there is still an expectation that when we pray, we don’t pray for ourselves mostly, and when we do, we don’t ask for things out of selfishness.
Also, plenty of miraculous prayers were answered, and documented throughouth the Bible. The thing is, you choose to disregard that as a source. In essence, you are saying the the Creator has to keep proving Himself to us. That, to me, is hubris.
You are entitled to that feeling and expectation, but I think it’s a bit much to ask of God, myself.
Coincendence vs. Providence is the debate that believers and non-believers have all the time.
They attribute the unexplainable to coincedence, and find that perfectly acceptable and intelligent. Believers attribute it to God, and we’re flaming idiots.
I want to be a morally ambigious superhero named “Flaming Idiot.” I can see the costume now…a motely-style “jester” uniform and a fire-enshrouded skull for a head…Sort of like Ghost Rider meets the Joker…
Thanks guys for the good conversation